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Ping Grey - "error" page
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Ping Grey - "error" page -- Posted by Charles Sweeney on 10-29-04 06:54
Remember the expired house listings?
Previously when a listing expired I redirected the visitor to the homepage.
Grey made the point that someone could have viewed the listing the day
before, then returned to see it again, then think there may be a problem
because all they got was the homepage.
Remember I put it on my "to do" list?
Well, it's on my "been done" list now.
Here's a listing that doesn't exist, click it to see the "error" page.
It's nothing fancy (doesn't need to be) but it does help the person in the
scenario that Grey described.
http://sellyourhouseforfree.com/listing.php?id=21485
--
Charles Sweeney
Re: Ping Grey - "error" page -- Posted by Dylan Parry on 10-29-04 07:02
As an authority on the subject, Charles Sweeney proclaimed:
> http://sellyourhouseforfree.com/listing.php?id=21485
A couple of suggestions:
1. Perhaps you should put a small explanation on that page saying
something like "Unfortunately the house previously listed here is no
longer available"?
2. The "back" link at the bottom won't do anything if there is nothing to
go back to. I assume you already know this, but it needs bitching about
nonetheless!
3. The title element is misleading as it implies that the page contains a
listing for a house that is for sale whereas it does not!
Just my 2p :)
--
Dylan Parry
http://webpageworkshop.co.uk - FREE Web tutorials and references
Re: Ping Grey - "error" page -- Posted by Charles Sweeney on 10-29-04 10:04
Dylan Parry wrote:
> As an authority on the subject, Charles Sweeney proclaimed:
>
>> http://sellyourhouseforfree.com/listing.php?id=21485
>
> A couple of suggestions:
Hey D, thanks for taking the time to reply!
> 1. Perhaps you should put a small explanation on that page saying
> something like "Unfortunately the house previously listed here is no
> longer available"?
ok, worth thinking about.
> 2. The "back" link at the bottom won't do anything if there is nothing
to
> go back to. I assume you already know this, but it needs bitching about
> nonetheless!
I presume you are talking about a different page? I put that in after
using a web-phone thingy in my local shopping centre, that did not have a
back button! (Mentioned this before. It either didn't have a back
button, or it did but this user couldn't find it, which amounts to the
same thing.)
Yep, I'm aware of its limitations, but it's not mission-critical, and is
only included to assist in the scenario described above.
> 3. The title element is misleading as it implies that the page contains
a
> listing for a house that is for sale whereas it does not!
It's plural "houses" for sale, so I don't think it gives the impression
that it is one listing in particular. It's a default one I use if I
can't think of anything better! The "error" page contains a search box
to see houses for sale, so I figured it was a fair enough title for a
bookmark.
> Just my 2p :)
Feedback is much more valuable than that!
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
Re: Ping Grey - "error" page -- Posted by GreyWyvern on 10-29-04 09:02
On 29 Oct 2004 10:54:30 GMT, Charles Sweeney wrote:
> Here's a listing that doesn't exist, click it to see the "error" page.
> It's nothing fancy (doesn't need to be) but it does help the person in
> the scenario that Grey described.
>
> http://sellyourhouseforfree.com/listing.php?id=21485
Meh... Above all, it's important to keep your customer from thinking your
site is broken. How well your site works reflects directly on how "in
control" they view your company.
In this case, the site looks broken. I typed in a valid id (or one that
used to be valid) and I get a blank listing? Must be something wrong with
your database, or... something.
A short error message like: "We're sorry, but this listing
(has(expired|been sold)|does not exist). Please take a look at these
other similiar houses by (location|features)", would remove all the
brokeness.
If you want to get REALLY nit-picky:
1) If the id used to be a valid house number but was removed, the page
should serve a 410 response.
2) If the id never existed (ie, silly user typing in random query strings)
the page should serve a 404 response. It should be easy to store empty
(used) entries in the database for, say, six months after they're removed,
allowing the program to know the difference. Also gives time for Google
to silently de-index them.
3) A 301 response (Moved Permanently; as the above page serves) should
*only* be used when the user will be able to find the previously available
*content* at a new location. Here you're just serving a blank page.
4) In addition, Google will see this redirect, go to the new page and
index it as a valid page replacement for the original. I doubt this page
is something you need to have indexed.
Grey
--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com - Orca Knowledgebase: Completely CSS styleable
Knowledgebase/FAQ system
Re: Ping Grey - "error" page -- Posted by Charles Sweeney on 10-29-04 10:27
GreyWyvern wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2004 10:54:30 GMT, Charles Sweeney
> wrote:
>
>> Here's a listing that doesn't exist, click it to see the "error"
>> page. It's nothing fancy (doesn't need to be) but it does help the
>> person in the scenario that Grey described.
>>
>> http://sellyourhouseforfree.com/listing.php?id=21485
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
> Meh... Above all, it's important to keep your customer from thinking
> your site is broken. How well your site works reflects directly on
> how "in control" they view your company.
Indeed.
> In this case, the site looks broken. I typed in a valid id (or one
> that used to be valid) and I get a blank listing? Must be something
> wrong with your database, or... something.
Eh? Not quite with you here. It never serves a blank listing. Before
it would redirect to the homepage, now it goes to the "error" page.
> A short error message like: "We're sorry, but this listing
> (has(expired|been sold)|does not exist). Please take a look at these
> other similiar houses by (location|features)", would remove all the
> brokeness.
Yep, that's what I did "Sorry, the page you requested no longer exists".
As discussed before, providing alternatives would involve something of a
rewrite, principally because once a listing has gone, all trace of it is
deleted.
> If you want to get REALLY nit-picky:
>
> 1) If the id used to be a valid house number but was removed, the page
> should serve a 410 response.
Would that be ok for Google? Would they drop it? I think they suggest
the 301 even for pages that no longer exist, unless I am mistaken.
> 2) If the id never existed (ie, silly user typing in random query
> strings) the page should serve a 404 response. It should be easy to
> store empty (used) entries in the database for, say, six months after
> they're removed, allowing the program to know the difference. Also
> gives time for Google to silently de-index them.
Yes, I had a little think about that. Decided it was nit-picking! At
the end of the day, if the user doesn't get the desired page, I don't
think he/she wants a public inquiry into it, so long (as you suggest, and
as I have implemented) that some explanation is given and alternative
options are provided.
For now, the listing ids are not re-used.
> 3) A 301 response (Moved Permanently; as the above page serves) should
> *only* be used when the user will be able to find the previously
> available *content* at a new location. Here you're just serving a
> blank page.
I'm not serving a blank page, never have done. Again the 301 was mainly
following Google's advice so they would drop the old listing.
> 4) In addition, Google will see this redirect, go to the new page and
> index it as a valid page replacement for the original. I doubt this
> page is something you need to have indexed.
Which is one of the reasons why I originally made it the homepage. I
figured it wouldn't do any harm if Google was picking that up.
The new "error" page does not *need* to be indexed, but it's got a quick
search box on it, so could be useful for a searcher, so I am quite happy
for it to be indexed. It also includes the phrase "property database"
which I don't have on any other page, and thought would be quite nice to
have on Google.
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
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